Indicators

[Dryrod]

[font "Garamond"][#008000][size 4]I have been making up some indicators for my up coming fishing trip. I didn't have the regular small O rings so I used some that came with an eye glasses repair kit. These O rings are perhaps a bit too heavy thus I found that one has to really wait for the back cast to unfurl otherwise that indicator will lead the fly causing the fly to land between the indicator and myself. Any one have a similar experience?[/size][/#008000][/font]
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[Scruffy_Fly]

Waiting for the line to straighten out on the back cast is always a good thing to do. [angelic]

I have had that problem on windy days. Switching to a smaller indicator has helped. It may not be your rubber. Maybe your indicator is too big. Ahhh, has too much profile causing too much air resistance.
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[Dryrod]

[center][font "Garamond"][#008000][size 4]Oh I realize that the indicator was going to be more resistant but how much was the question. At times I do get a bit sloppy not waiting for the line to fully uncoil on the back cast which one can usually get by with, but there is really no forgiveness when there is another attachment be it an indicator or a dropper. Hey maybe adding an indicator might be a good training aid for new and old casters alike. [/size][/#008000][/font]
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[Dryrod]

[font "Garamond"][#008000][size 4]Thinking about whether the size of my indicator was too big compared to the buoy sizes that the fly shops sell, I measured the ones I made. Then are 1" long, 1/8[/size][/#008000][/font][font "Garamond"][#008000][size 4]" at the top and 1/16" at the base. Length can always be modified stream side. BTW I'm using yellow yarn.[/size][/#008000][/font]
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[Brook]

Indicators will always affect the timing of your cast. Keep in mind that you now have two air-resistent objects fighting the movement of the line.

It's always a good idea to keep indicators as small as possible for the conditions.

It's why I prefer the stick-on foam sheets. I can trim and shape them to be as little air-resistent as possible, while still doing the job.
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[Dryrod]

[center][font "Garamond"][#000000][size 4][#008000]I have those little round sticky indicators - however, one needs young eyes to see those little suckers bouncing around the water.[/#008000][/size][/#000000][/font]
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[macfly55]

as bad as I cast a line.. I dont think the extra anything would hurt it at all.. [sly]


MacFly [cool]
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[Brook]

I've used those little round stickees in the past, but didn't like them.

First off, they stick out way to far, making them more air resistent for their size than necessary. And they have a tendency to fall off while casting.

The solid sheets (same material, just not pre-cut) work better for me. What I do is cut a strip of it, about an inch wide. This gets rolled around the leader or line as the case may be.

What happens is you create a highly visible "tube" that's barely thicker than the line, and thus, less air resistent.

In heavy or roily water I might use two or three of them, lined up, cuz my eyes are also rather old.

A now deceased friend taught me another trick. He pre-built his leaders, using those heat-melt type tubes (the kind used to make a clean connection with braided loops, for instance). Up to three of them would be spaced on a leader, letting you more easily track sub-surface flies, but without the floating characteristics of the foam.

Brook
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[macfly55]

"The solid sheets (same material, just not pre-cut) work better for me. What I do is cut a strip of it, about an inch wide. This gets rolled around the leader or line as the case may be.

What happens is you create a highly visible "tube" that's barely thicker than the line, and thus, less air resistent. "

....I kind of like that idea.. but isnt the idea for an indicator to be a visible (usually above water surface for visibility).. even a wf f lines tip will sink.. and that would take the "indicator" subsurface.. ??...

".....He pre-built his leaders, using those heat-melt type tubes (the kind used to make a clean connection with braided loops, for instance). Up to three of them would be spaced on a leader, letting you more easily track sub-surface flies, but without the floating characteristics of the foam. "

"just an observation on these tubes.. you are not talking about shrink tubing are you.. ?? I would think just applying the heat for a shrink tube would ruin your line..and the leader.. "
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[Brook]

Let's take it in order.

The rolled-cylinder indicators do float. Just not as high as the punched disc type. If one isn't enough, a second one, a few inches away, does the trick: and gives you a better line of sight towards your fly.

Indicators, used correctly, are primarily used to give a visible indication of where your fly is. That's why they're called "indicators" instead of "bobbers."

While floating indicators can be used for nymphing, they are more often used for one of two reasons: to, in effect, shorten the leader length, or to show you where a small, otherwise invisible, fly might be on the surface.

If you add up the materials used as indicators, however, you'll discover that more of them do not float than do. Yarn, for instance, is a subsurface indicator.

If your leader is straight, as it should be, you then can follow the indicator as it follows the nymph, and you'll know precisely where it is, and when (hopefully) a fish picks it up.

Floating lines all used to sink, eventually. Modern, high-end floating lines do not. If your line is sinking (absent some reason like a weighted fly pulling it down), try cleaning it, and it should float high and dry.

Generally you're right about heat. It's not a good idea. But those tubes will shrink just from the heat of a hair dryer, without affecting the leader material.

Building leaders of any kind, like tying flies, is a nice off-season activity. Those leaders were all pre-built (Jimmy's been gone several years, now, but I still have a few of them in my kit), and designed specifically for nymphing for smallmouth.

Brook
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[macfly55]

what you say makes a lot of sense..

as for the wf- f line sinking.. you are right.. I usually use weighted flies.. but not exclusively.. even in this case I am talking a couple of inches of line up from the line/leader connection may go just under the surface.. so far all intents and purposes it is still floating.. the leader and tippet are a different story..

I have seen those loop to loop tubes you spoke of earlier. I just did not realize they could be shrunk.. and I assume for the sake of this discussion that those tubes are a different material than that used for electrical connects (shrink tubing) as that requires a bit of heat to work and I can see that damaging the line and leader material easily..

as for building leaders etc.. one of our members is very proficient at that "art" especially when it comes to furled leaders...

I myself am novice fly fisherman.. and fly tyer (in my case youd call it putting flies together and hope they stay that way)..

MacFly [cool]
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[Brook]

> myself am novice fly fisherman.. and fly tyer (in my case youd call it putting flies together and hope they stay that way).. <

Everybody has to start somewhere. And the only way to amass time in grade is---you guessed it---through time in grade.


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[Gmony]

[quote Brook]I
The solid sheets (same material, just not pre-cut) work better for me. What I do is cut a strip of it, about an inch wide. This gets rolled around the leader or line as the case may be.

What happens is you create a highly visible "tube" that's barely thicker than the line, and thus, less air resistent.

In heavy or roily water I might use two or three of them, lined up, cuz my eyes are also rather old. [/quote]

Thanks, I really like this idea. Definately one I will try out in the future ! I use the disks occasionally, but this seems better.
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[Brook]

Let me know how it works for you.

Brook
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[flygoddess]

Hey G. I have seen that done also. I guess I don't care for it cause it is one time, throw away. I prefer indicators that I can use over and over. I haven't used them when fishing with you that I can remember, but I have these little styro balls (about the size of a pencil eraser) and a small tooth pick.
The problem with both is if you add any weight as in split shot, they will sink.
And McFly, there are allot of floating lines out on the market that the tip will sink. Not what the line should be doing. Even some of the more expensive lines will tip sink like SYLK. I guess that is why I have narrowed my choices down to a few that cast great, float high and no tip sink.

If wind is enough of a factor that a small yarn indicator is getting blown off track, I would suggest BIO-STRIKE. It is a FLOATING puddy. Can be moved up and down the leader, and can be used again and again. Down side to it is it gets hard when cold so you got to keep it in your pants pocket, and the other is it can stain the leader. Again easy fixes on both.
Another plus, you can make it any size you want and it does have the mass and weight to cut through wind and still float.
If it does come off, it melts away over time and is totally environmental safe.
It is my choice on windy days, but for stillwater it is always a POP TOP or a BREAKAWAY STYRO INDICATOR.
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[Scruffy_Fly]

MacFly wrote: and I assume for the sake of this discussion that those tubes are a different material than that used for electrical connects (shrink tubing) as that requires a bit of heat to work and I can see that damaging the line and leader material easily..

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[#0000ff]They are the same as the heat shrink for electrical connections. I have used a lighter by waving the lighter underneath the heat shrink but the heat gun is safer to use. Finding heat shrink with the small diameter you would need may take some looking around but Fry's would be the first place to look.[/#0000ff]
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[macfly55]

Hey SF,

it still would concern me that you would apply a heat source like a lighter or heat gun.. I would think, especialy in my hands, that damage to the line and leader would be the inevitable result.. I would think, even though I have not used it yet.. that a putty like the biostrike that FG mentioned.. or the small foam ball.. or even the sheet material that brook mentioned would be much safer..

MacFly [cool]
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[flygoddess]

Oh no there is nothing wrong with the shrink tube. You do have to be careful but it is done all the time. In fact the braided loops that Orvis sells has the shrink tube. They recommend a dab of Zap-A-Gap then the shrink tube for a smooth transition.
I guess I just use too heavy of nymphs LOL But My Chironomids are made to sink fast.
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[macfly55]

lol.. well I have burned shrink tubing before.. not on purpose.. but it happen.. so I know something like that could be dangerous in my hands.. LOL>.

MacFly [cool]
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[Brook]

Mac, the trick is to stay away from open flames, like matches and lighters. Heat guns and hair dryers keep you in control.

Can you ruin a leader or line tip shrinking one of those tubes with an open flame? You betcha! Just don't ask how I know. [angelic]

Brook
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