Keeping Fish Ethics & Courtesy & the law

[windriver]

Ok. I am very afraid that this discussion will open up a huge can of worms, but I don't want to stifle free speech already exercised on the Deep Creek post.[cool]

I do think that education is the best way to help people not abuse our fisheries. So lets talk about it in a way that is not inflammatory or personal, and then not bring it up again for at least a year.[]

I will start with a quick story. When I was 18 I caught a 22" Largemouth at Condie that was huge. She, yes [#000000][/#000000]she[/u] was fat and heavy. I have no idea how much she weighed but it was the biggest large mouth I had ever caught and I got her on a six weight fly rod. I immediately thought I would get a taxidermy mount of her. Someone fishing nearby said, " You are going to release her aren't you." My conscience was pricked so I said, "Of course," as I slid her back into the water. Now it was close to spawning so I thought I was doing the right thing. The unfortunate thing was Condie was completely drained a couple of years after that. I now wish I had her on the wall. If I had kept her she was a legal fish. One of only a couple over the 21" minimum that I have ever caught at Condie.

If had caught and kept that fish today would I have been roasted on BFT? I think most likely and that is unfortunate. On the other hand I probably would have a digital picture of it to make a fiberglass mount had I caught that fish today.

The reason this subject is so inflammatory is because there are no easy answers. Each of us must decide for ourselves what is the proper thing to do in a given situation.

There are as many different kinds of fisherman on this board as there are ways to fish. We need to respect the guy who likes to eat fish and keeps a legal limit for his family. We should also respect an angler's right to keep a trophy fish for a mount if they so wish. I don't think it is wrong to educate people who otherwise don't know how special some fish are so they don't keep fish needlessly when other alternatives might taste better, be better for the fishery ( I know I am no biologist), or just flat out be more ethical.


Here is what I think...Take it for what it is worth.

1. If you like to eat trout it might be the best thing to target fish at the family fisheries or reservoirs where the trout are heavily stocked and there are liberal limits for a reason. I have also found the small stream brookies to be especially tasty (personal opinion).

I have also found trout to be more desirable when the water temps are cold. I don't know if there is anything to it, but it seems like I just feel like eating fresh trout more in late fall and winter. ( Anyone else feel that way?) I think the thing that angers people the most is when people keep a stringer of trout and then freeze them until they find them years later and then throw them out. Trout really are the best when eaten fresh. I personally never freeze trout. I keep them in the fridge for a day or two until I can eat them. Then again I fish enough that there will always be another chance at a fish meal if I want one.

2. Bass are always a touchy subject do to there status as a big time game fish in a state that for the most part is not conducive to fast growth rates. Most people just do not realize how long it take to grow a trophy smallmouth or largmouth in this state. How many smallmouth over 16" have you caught at Ririe? I have seen three and I have caught one. Are they overpopulated or are people just keeping the bigger ones at 14-15" before they can reach that size? Should we release the bigger ones so the genetics can be passed on? I can say I haven't kept a big one yet. The same argument can be made for many bass lakes and rivers in Idaho. Unless they are deeply hooked and bleeding all over I release with the thought that they can't get bigger unless I let them go. Hope someone has caught the 14ers" I let go last year.[laugh]

3. To me panfish are my dinner fish. I love a good perch, bluegill, or crappie dinner. I would say 80% of my fish meals are panfish. My kids love them and they populate fast enough that I don't feel bad about keeping a mess for the plate. When I am in catfish country I keep a few smaller ones as well simply because I love them.

4. I guess my final question is are there some fish so special and hard to find that they should always be released even if the law allows you to keep one?

i.e. Bulltrout (illegal and protected in Idaho)
Big Laketrout-They just take too long to grow. A 20 year old fish deserves to released in my opinion.
Sturgeon (protected-keep in the water and take care to follow the barbless rules)
Tigermuskie?-They help keep the small fish in check.


5. One more thing that I thought of is what do you do when you know that you have mortally wounded a fish. If I see blood or I can't revive the fish and it is a legal fish I take it home and eat it. If it is a cutt or a fish that is out of a slot limit I just let it go anyway because I can't legally keep it. More often than not an eagle, hawk, or osprey comes and takes care of it.

Hopefully this leads to a productive discussion.

Windriver
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[StacyR]

I have no problem with people keeping fish as long as the laws aren't broken. I think that each person should decide for themselves what they will do, and not pass judgment on what other people are doing. If you never keep a bass or trout or whatever over X pounds, that's fine. But don't start telling people that's what they have to do when the law allows them to keep it.

I rarely keep trout, because I personally find freshly stocked planters to taste disgusting. That hatchery feed they get makes their meat pasty, and most of the family fishing waters around Boise have such heavy fishing pressure that the fish never get a chance to acclimate to a natural diet before they all get caught out.

I rarely keep bass, because I don't like the way they taste. But I'm not going to go flaming someone when I see a bass on their stringer.
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[AverysAdventure]

I eat everything I catch and only catch what I can eat. [fishin]
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[jigs]

to all there own. it realy does no good to complain about someone keeping a fish you would have released. remember we all pay for our licenses and all pay good money to get out and fish. we just all need to show a bit of Courtesy to one another and think before we post. it seems more and more flaming and spamming is going on. Go read some posts on the utah site its almost every post anymore. i hate to sound like my mother but if you dont have anything nice to say... well then dont say it..
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[Mojo1]

My 2 cents, for what it is worth...
1) you can't legislate ethics. You can make laws, but you can't force people to do what is right. If we could there would be no reason for Law Enforcement Officers.

2) just because it is legal, doesn't mean I am going to do it. You do not have to keep every 20+" bass you catch in a trophy pond.

3) we should NEVER judge our collegues on here if they chose to do something LEGAL, regardless of what our "ethics meter" says. Ethics are personal, and just because you wouldn't harvest a fish (even though it is legal) doesn't mean it is not the right choice for another member here.

4) if you have a propblem with something someone posts, either try to politley educate them, or take it to private messages.

5) people that spam internet boards are jerks.
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[flygoddess]

Wind, I am going to start off with you saying that a fellow fisher questioned your intent. Fiberglass molds in my opinion are sooo much better looking and better for display. Plus they can even correct small flaws.

BUT, it was definitely not his business, and how dare he.
I was on the other end. I had just landed a 36" around 20lb Hybrid Cutt. Measured, got a couple pictures all the way around (for the fiberglass mold) and let her go.
My whole party was hollering at me "What were you thinking?"
I was thinking, we just got to this lake for a week long stay....where would I store this fish and what would it look like after storing.
That fish (according to Damen) would not survive the winter. In other words, it was it's last year more than likely...So I returned to home.

Big fish really don't taste good, but smoked...not bad.

I have also seen fish caught that should have been kept. Grabbing by the gills, blood (even if a little)..grabbing big fish by the tail and lifting (displacing there inners).

If you are going to keep the fish, then do what you want. If you are not or plan on being selective, then HANDLE ALL IN THE C&R TRADITION.
Try not to remove from water, but if you need to, hold your breath.
Cradle the whole fish. And maybe try debarbing your hooks, or go circle hooks.

That is my take.
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[packfish]

Twice in 1 day I got in an arguement about letting 2 very large_ 27" plus bows go and a person across the river wanted to buy them from me. It had nothing to do with catch and release philosophy- they just would not have been good eaters.
My whole problem with catch and release is that it seems to be a "BAND WAGON" that people jump on with not knowing the reasons why. Knowledge of the waters you fish are the greatest thing one can have going for them- knowing when taking fish is a benefit to the waters and knowing when releasing fish is the proper thing to do for those waters. Look what "catch and release" has done to the Blacksmith Fork in Cache Valley--- all because it was the in fly thing to do. And I'm a fly guy
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[jacksonlaker]

Windriver, Excellent post. I agree with everything you said. Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming are not trophy bass states. I have no problem with poeple keeping them. The odds that released bass will grow large are pretty slim in our cold clear lakes. Some guys still have the 1950s mentality of if you dont catch and keep your limit, your not a very good fishermen. Fishing is about having fun, not killing every fish you legaly can. And Flygoddess....I still tell everyone about that Henry's lake monster you caught and released, and I have defended your releasing it to everyone. I wouldnt have cared if you had kept it, but I'm with you. What do you do with it for a week ? and I have not seen a lot of fish mounts that I like..the picture of it is just fine.
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[ironrod]

I too agree to-each-their-own...as long as it is within the bounds of the regs/laws.[cool] I personally love to eat fresh fish...like WindRiver said...frozen fish really aren't that good and I'm guilty of keeping some that end of being found a yr later and eventually thrown out. I haven't done that for yrs - only keep what I know will be eaten. I have a couple of mounts that were done 9 yrs ago..at the time fiberglass mounts weren't that good and were much more $$...now I would go the glass mount way! Let that majestic fish possibly spawn a couple more times and create more trophies for us to catch.

Another idea on keeping trout...I believe they taste great all yr round EXCEPT during their spawn....this holds true for most salmonoids...if they're in the middle of that spawning cycle their meat isn't very good-even those that don't die after spawning. I guess this is personal opinion but I think most would agree if they could compare.

I too love the small pan fish for the fish fries[:p]-my kids love to catch them as well since it's usually faster fishing and they love how they taste like "chicken nuggets" and can be dipped in fry sauce!

I don't think it's our place to "suggest" to another fisherman ---"your not going to keep that are you"...as long as it's legal-again it's their choice.

I have to share a quick story...a few yrs ago while fishing the SF out of a drift boat..another boat was watching us like a hawk-we were out fishing them 5-1. They must have asked every other time we caught a fish.."is that a cutt?-you better not take that out of the water-are you using barbless hooks?" Well, soon my buddy had a nice 22" bow on and it was peeling line...back and forth the fish went...that same group of three guys shouted "your'e gonna kill that thing-you had better get it to the boat "....we looked at each other (hadn't answered or commented to them all day) and knew we were going to HAVE to respond...well, we landed it on the side of the boat away from our "friends"...well, my buddy picked up the fish-shouted "Dang Cutthroats!" and slammed into the bottom of our boat[blush][]-I think the blood left everyone of their faces...they quickly retrieved their lines and left![laugh]
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[flygoddess]

Pack, speaking for myself and people I fish with, being a FLY FISHER, we try to down size. Vest, fanny pack, sling, whatever...we put what we need in there.
We can't imagine walking up and down a river with a stringer. Sure a creel would be an option, but again, down sizing.
I know several spin fishers that feel the same, so not just a FF thing.

When we go out on Stillwater, we are generally out there for hours. Hanging a fish off the side on a stringer or in a basket, just doesn't work for me. The longer a fish lays in the water dead or alive, the more it looses flavor to me.
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[Troutlover]

Goddess !!!!! Hello, just had to start by thanking my mentor, you probably don't even remember me from the utah posts but if it wasn't for you I probably would have given up on fly fishing! So thank you for your encouragement and all the posts you made instructing poor pitiful souls like me.

That being said, back to the subject at hand. After reading everyones views on this and the locked post. I actually understand why our government decided they had to regulate fishing in the first place. And all other "Government talk" aside I think they are doing a decient job as far as fish and game is concerned. However, in my humble oppinion I believe that SE Idaho is in desperate need of a true Trophy lake. Now, i'm still reletively new to the area, and it may all ready be out here somewhere? What I am saying is there should be a place where it's all C&R so that people that don't want to harvest don't have to see harvesting at all. I may not understand people that are extreme C&R only, but I can still repect them. On the other side there would still be plenty of areas where fish could be caught and kept. Anyway, I guess all I'm saying is that if someone has a Ideal spot for an all catch and release lake I would happily sign the petition, and be even more happy to go fish it without harvesting. In the meen time I am really hoping to get into a school of bows in SF, so I can fill my freezer. Then I'll probably be stictly C&R for the rest of the season. Because IMO spring fish taste better frozen then summer fish taste fresh. In my own defence I have never wasted a fish. But, I was raised to never kill what you don't plan to eat.
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[packfish]

[quote flygoddess]Pack, speaking for myself and people I fish with, being a FLY FISHER, we try to down size. Vest, fanny pack, sling, whatever...we put what we need in there.
We can't imagine walking up and down a river with a stringer. Sure a creel would be an option, but again, down sizing.
I know several spin fishers that feel the same, so not just a FF thing.

I agree- I try and fish naked- []---- OK naked as far as excess equipement but , and this is mainly on rivers- we are sometimes our own worst enemy- we need to make the effort to kill every once in awhile- even if you have to fill out the papers to give it to your neighbor ( covered myself there I hope) My whole thought wave is to get as many people as possible to take the time to try to understand the biology/ecology of the waters they fish.
There are so many more people fishing now than in the 60's and more are concentrated on certain waters that every little bit of knowledge helps the over - all picture.
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[flygoddess]

Thank you Trout lover.

Pack, the harvesting I think is more a convenience than a purist thing.
I know whern I go fishing, I know when I am catching big headed skinny fish, it is time to take them home for a good home made meal[]. But, I hate the hassle of gutting and cleaning, along with the hauling them around till I do go home.
Plus I don't go out to just fill a limit, but to enjoy the day.

So, while I am far from being a purist, It is just not convenient for me to harvest.

I am guilty of telling myself the next guy will keep them.[angelic]
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[LSR83]

Glad to see everyone pretty much has the same idea. When I go steelhead fishing I usually only keep tight hens for the eggs. By smoking these hens that gives me plenty of fish for fam and friends. I'll keep a big buck for smoking every once in awhile. i usually let trout and bass go cuz catching them is fun eating them not so much for me. Salmon if its legal I will keep it cant get enough salmon in the diet.
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[drowning_flys]

I have been a catch and release fisherman for a long time, back in my younger days i kept lots of fish but I always gave them to my parents as they enjoyed them and i cant think of one time they went to waste. being a fly fisherman helps a lot as you don't see many fish damaged or bleeding and the times i have used bait I see a lot deeper hooks that even barbless can be difficult to remove but if they are then there reduced to a limit and taken home.
Ive always encouraged my fishing partners to release fish also but if they choose to keep one I don't badger them or make them feel guilty. they on the other hand give me crap all the time for letting fish go I just simply brush it off and say i have a deal with god and the fish i catch lots and i always promise to let them go ha ha they just shake there head
Fishing is just like any outdoor experience take from it what you need to get the most from it rather its memories or a creel full of fish as long as its legal and you feel good about it no one can judge you or tell you your wrong, but i will offer this advise there is nothing like turning a trophy fish free to catch another day. Just watching it swim away out of site makes you feel like a little kid. []
Now on the other hand im a bow fisherman and have taken 100s of carp and suckers in a night they have been used for bait and fertilizer and i have received tons of chit for doing this because its waist full and some people don't like it so i truly understand both sides
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[Warchild]

+1 wind for locking that thread
I should of just not posted but their is one thing I do not care for on BFT is C&R preaching too fellow anglers. The Utah side is full of it.
I have gotten upset in the past or voiced my opinion and even tried to make people see my noble ways lol.. But to what end a locked thread

I have made a BFT new years resolution.
I will not Flame someone for keeping fish.... (even bass)
I will try keep my political and ethical views from post..
I will only flame the BFT Trolls....
I will try and see myself as a troll when I am doing this.
I will try and do this for one year..
Ps I quit smoking last year and I think I can honesty say I can almost do this...

Fishing ethics & Courtesy & the Law.
Follow them and leave the people alone that follow them.
People who do not and chose not to follow them. Speak up against them and let them know you care,do not be the silent majority because it will continue to happen.
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[packfish]

[quote flygoddess]Thank you Trout lover.

Pack, the harvesting I think is more a convenience than a purist thing.
I know whern I go fishing, I know when I am catching big headed skinny fish, it is time to take them home for a good home made meal[]. But, I hate the hassle of gutting and cleaning, along with the hauling them around till I do go home.
Plus I don't go out to just fill a limit, but to enjoy the day.

So, while I am far from being a purist, It is just not convenient for me to harvest.

I am guilty of telling myself the next guy will keep them.[angelic][/quote]

Joni---- but you are a very knowledgable angler ( and you do try to pass knowledge on freely- I admire that)----- many many of the new generation are not- don't get me wrong many are- but many see the ads, the pictures, the mags- all the media hype that we were never bombarded with coming up. Look at some of the fly sites and see how many buy into what a few are saying no matter what those few say- just to be part of that click. Many release every fish not knowing why they do but because someone else said so or vise versus. Everyone seems to want "it" now and do not want to put the effort in to study, read ( heaven forbid going to the libraray) and learn the big picture. If it can't be found it 2 clicks on the net then obviously it has no relevance. Again- go the xtra step and learn- if the net is one's gig look at how many studies you can get off the F&g sites.
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[flygoddess]

Me too Warchild[cool] Ain't it great[]
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[X2FSH]

This is somewhat on the the topic of fishing ethics...what do you guys think of fishingmen that throw white fish and sucker fish on the shore to die after catching...I'm not a hard core Mr. C and R kind of guy but that is just one thing that I can't seem to do. Nothing worse then fishing on the shore and walking upon a rotting, smelling fly infested fish. I was wondering others thoughts on this....
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[flygoddess]

Littering! Just like people that walk their dogs on human paths and don't bring bags. I hate both.[crazy]
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