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A recent comment made on the 'Strawberry ice/walleye ramblings' thread got me thinking.
I think that us atv/snowmobile owners got dealt a huge blow to our rights by being banned from Deer Creek a few years ago. I am a huge advocate of user rights as long as your taxes are paid and your machine has been well maintained.
It appears that Willard is next.
When will the ban come in to effect at Strawberry,Flaming Gorge, Fish Lake, etc?
I always assumed(my fault, I know) that everyone felt the same as I do, maybe not?
I love living in a country where the majority should rule.
Please weigh in with your opinion, maybe I am in the minority?
I heard that the ban was already in effect at Powell!!!
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I'm not a power user. And there have been times I'd be happy to NOT have the company on a lake.
So - I get on the ice at 6am - first one out, hike a half mile across the lake - stop, pop tent, drill a hole - and someone on an ATV comes blasting across the lake and parks/idles inside of 20ft from me. Just sits there humming and rumbling. Took me a half hour to hike out, took them 10 minutes - WHY stop right next to me? Move on hoser!
The other is the folks who go speeding their sleds across the ice, or using the ATV for joy riding - letting the undersized kids spin donuts all over amongst the anglers.
I am NOT saying YOU do this. These are the kind of gripes I have against power machines. Anyone who obeys the rules, and repects those around them - welcome. Those that choose to go hog-wild - will lead to lakes closing access.
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I have had the occasional pleasure to access the ice by snowmobile or a 4 X 4. It sure beats walking. I definitely don't want them banned (unless for safety reasons on a particular body of water), but I have a few issues with them. I have been walking out on Strawberry before, while it has been so foggy that I can't see ten feet in front of me, and had snowmobiles flying past me going at least 45 mph. It has been luck, or perhaps a huge blessing, that I haven't been hit by one of them. The other concern is that I have been fishing and had them pass by within a short distance when they could have easily not even come near me.
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The issue, as I see it, is not ATVs but bad ATVers. (We could say the same for bad shooters, bad drivers, bad bikers, bad neighbors...)
I wouldn't mind a safety-conscious, courteous ATVer anywhere. On the other hand, I wouldn't lift a finger to help get one out of a hole in the ice. Using one is YOUR choice, and the risks as well as the benefits are all yours.
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I have been an ice fisherman for decades. I have hiked out onto the ice using the packed down trails left behind by the snow mobiles - why, because it generally takes a whole lot less effort than walking through the deep snow & slush. The same goes for riding a sled or an ATV across the ice, especially on those days when slush is present - they are a lot easier to ride on the packed down trails. It is sometimes frustrating for the sled/ATV rider when people set up a large group on the packed trails (which for us is the roadway)? I would suggest, especially late in the season when the snow is deep, if you want quiet & solace then folks should move off of the trails for a distance. I realize that there is always exceptions, especially earlier in the season when folks can drive anywhere, then common courtesy should apply.
Regarding the use of ATV's on Deer Creek, I believe the main reason they do not allow these machines on the ice is because this body of water is a major source of drinking water in SL and Utah counties. I ride an ATV and I believe they are a lot cleaner than a lot of the two cycle boat motors being used on the reservoir. So I am not convinced that this is a valid argument? I am not sure if there is a safety issue with DC or not?
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If it's a safety issue, then that seems like a good reason. Other than that, I couldn't care less about ATV's or Sleds. I've been ice fishing and walking to the lake for 25+ years and I don't recall ever being pissed at someone who was using one. As has been said, I enjoy having a nice trail to walk/pull my sled-shack on, and on more than one occasion I've had people offer to pull me or have me just jump on and they'd tow me to the lake or to the car.
Unlike the jackwagons and their power boats, I have no ill-will toward the ice power squadron.
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It dont bother me when people use sleds and atvs to get to where they are fishing. when i take mine out on the ice i have no problem helping other folks out too. If someone wants to fish on the trail i have made i really dont care as i have the ability to go around them and it is no harder to do that rather than be a jerk and go through where someone is fishing.... however i do agree people shouldnt let their kids just run wild on the lake disturbing others. i guess my solution would be parents and adults dont be ignorant, if you are going to go play on the ice be respectful and do it away from everyone else and if thats not possible go somewhere else where you wont bother anyone. anglers should be able to use those shotguns that shoot beanbags to educate others on manners and courtesy! ive almost hooked me a few skiers out on willard and i will keep trying, if i can hook them with a rapala they are entirely too close and it would be totally worth losing a 7 dollar lure to teach some jerk a little respect
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Kind of sounds like tubers verses power squadron debate. I actually do both walking most of the time but my father in law can't walk it anymore but he still loves to ice fish so I take him on my four wheeler and its a great way to get him there. Now I don't know if you non motorized folks know how freaking expensive it is to license a motorized toy in this state but its ridiculous. Seems like my quad is almost as expensive as a car so I personally think the motorized folks are paying the bills to keep your recreational spots open so you better not chase them all away or else uncle sugar is going to find a way to pay the bills out of your pocket instead. I know operators need to be courteous and if the aren't we need the rangers to do their jobs and write some tickets. Doesn't take many and the whole group gets smarter quick as the word gets out. Later J
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The oils from modern well maintained motorized equipment can be small. Cleanliness of a communities water supply is important to the users. It might or might not be the reason. Generally I respect everyone properly using our resources and using a sense of individual responsibility to not impose on the use and enjoyment of others.
It might be political might of majority imposing on the minority and that is wrong. I still am annoyed that 59% of Salt Lake County voters imposed fluoridation of the water onto 41% who were outvoted. People should take a lot into account when making laws and generally side with the public being able to use their resources.
But, Grantsville Reservoir, as one example, is a different situation because it is privately owned. They don't even have any obligation to allow us to fish there (though I appreciate that they do), so their ban on fuel powered boats isn't imposing on public property because it is theirs.
Our Founding Fathers told us our form of government is only designed for a moral and just society. Yet in our times some want to claim "it must be right or there would be a law against it" and by pushing that and flaunting it abusively they are prompting others to oblige by asking legislators to make a law against it. There is no end to this and this is why we have so many laws. There was a time when people cherished the rights of others and respected others without necessity for law libraries filled with books of conflicting laws. Or as Heinlein said: "an armed society is a polite society."
Put more simply in the form of a poem I learned in childhood: "Oh, what a tangled web we weave once we practice to deceive."
Photograph: 20 inch brown trout, Grantsville Reservoir, caught with swim bait in a long cast over rocks into the reflection of the light of a huge full moon. Do the photograph details of GPS, time, date, location, etc. show up?
I ask because I would like to be able to simply use a photograph sent to our group while ice fishing to be an invitation with a map. How many will be able to use it that way with smart phones or whatever? I'm using a tablet.
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Thats the problem. There are too many asshats that ruin it for everybody else. I have been nearly run over by people on machines ripping by my tent. And have seen a lot of near misses. People need to be courteous and have a slow idle while among other fisherman, both for safety reasons and to reduce noise. Many of us like the peace and quiet while fishing, and it is often ruined by selfish dangerous jerks who show no courtesy. Too many drive them like they drive their boats, full throttle within just a few feet of others, and through no wake zones. Too many idiots out there ruin it for others.
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should a boat be banned from the water?
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[quote clipripper]should a boat be banned from the water?[/quote]
Of course not, but this is a silly comparison. There are rules and regulations for boats, and if not followed, can result in fines, etc. Boats are made to be on the water, ATV's aren't.
Instead of banning them, perhaps some information, education, regulation, and then finally some enforcement should be looked at.
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Everyone but Bassrods should be allowed to put an ATV on the ice. [  ]
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I personally don't see or have a problem with ATV's or Snow Machines. I l believe there is not that much different when you're anchored in a boat and someone comes up and starts fishing right next to you. To many of our rights are being targeted and I believe we need to join together to stop this.
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