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[#0000FF]There was an article by Brett Prettyman in the Salt Lake Tribune this morning that warned about the potential for closing the Jones Hole Hatchery over near the Green River. Another looming casualty of the "sequestration" thing...with Utah hatcheries losing about $6 million in the last couple of years.
[url "http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57135593-78/fish-utah-hatchery-hatcheries.html.csp"]LINK TO ARTICLE[/url]
As the article points out, a big loser would be Flaming Gorge...which gets up to 450,000 rainbows and 350,000 kokanees from Jones Hole each year. They provide a lot of good fishing and definitely increase the angler hours on the lake.
Another potential loser would be Starvation. That hatchery is the one from which the "Starvation steelhead" are planted...over 50,000 per year. A whole lot of folks are hitting Starvation these days just for those wild and wacky wainbows.
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Thanks for the info TD, another thing to hate about sequestration, it seems to be hitting me from all sides... I'd hate to see the drop in those areas of fish... I don't know if you know, but I have heard the Gorge has like 3 strains of Kokanee and some are larger than others... If this is true, which strain comes from that hatchery? I think last year the Wyoming hatchery cut the number of Kokes it planted by a large number as well.... This could put a real hurt on the Gorge...
While I'm whining, did you notice the DWR raised the possession limit to double a days limit on all areas except a couple and Flamming Gorge was one of them... If there was any lake in this whole state that I would want a two day possession for, it would be Flamming Gorge.... I mean it's a 4 to 5 hour trip and they only let you keep the current days limit, how stupid is that.... Let us keep a couple fish so the trip is worth the effort... Its sort of like going to Alaska and only being able to keep a days limit, fun, but no fish fry when you return home.... I think the DWR really missed the mark on that one and the local economies are probably affected by less people coming... But I guess if they aren't going to have any fish to catch maybe it will be okay... Later J
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[#0000FF]I share your concern and your frustration. But I suspect that the two-day limit regulation will only make legal what a lot of folks have been doing anyway. And anglers who keep few fish will not be affected by it at all.
Can't even guess why the regulation omitted Flaming Gorge...unless it is factoring in the reduced planting numbers and anticipated heavier harvest rates. Until everything settles down and biologists have a chance to crunch the REAL numbers it is probably a good idea to avoid opening the Gorge up for greater harvest.
I have also heard of the different strains of kokes in the Gorge...with different spawning habits to help increase recruitment in case of poor results by other strains. If you want more detailed info, try contacting Ryan Mosley...the DWR biologist for the Gorge. He is also Ryno on our board if you wanna send him a PM. I suspect that he might chime in on this post anyway. He is good about providing current info and helpful tips on his big pond.
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If the DWR knew about the hatchery closing then I think your explanation about why the possession limit wasn't increased makes a lot of sense and I can see it is probably necessary from a management perspective....
Hey now the Ryan thing makes more sense, I have always enjoyed Ryno's posts from the Gorge and was thinking he was more informative than most when it came to the how to's and now I know why he doesn't try to keep the secrets to himself like too many anglers... It's nice to have someone that will help you learn how to fish the different areas when you don't have the time to figure them out yourself... I really appreciate you Pat and Ryan and Scott up at Bear Lake that help the rest of us have a good time when we go fishing... I know for too many years I could only fish a couple times a year and it was hard to do well when you had to figure out what to do when you should have been catching fish.. I always enjoyed it, but its a lot more fun if you know where to start so you can catch fish on your limited time in the field... So thanks to all of you that make it easier for the rest of us to have fun... Later J
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The reason Flaming Gorge wasn't included in the two-day possession limit is because Wyoming's fishing proclamation runs on a two year cycle. They plan on revisiting the issue next year, when Wyoming is due to renew their proclamation. DNR wants both states to be in sync with each other. That's the only reason why.
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I should also mention Strawberry was omitted from the two day possession do to the high angling hours and chub issues the berry faces.
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WiperMac responded to the question regarding the 2-day possession. If or when Wyoming (WGFD) makes a change, the change on the Utah side will be easy. It's a lot easier on anglers when the regs are consistent across the stateline, as much as possible anyway. It also makes it easier on the law enforcement officers.
There are two strains of kokanee in the reservoir and they are more easily identified during the spawn. The early-run strain, is typically not as big, prefers spawning in tributaries, and spawning intensity usually peaks around the third week of September. This is the strain that is more commonly observed in Sheep Creek from late-August through September, and it's much more vibrant red/orange than the second strain. The other strain is a late-run, which you may commonly hear labeled as the Roaring Judy strain. It doesn't typically start running until mid to late-October, is the dominant in-reservoir or shoreline spawner, is much darker red in color (some almost look black) and on average is larger than the former, early-run strain. Of course larger fish, produce more eggs (which is advantageous when you're collecting wild eggs), more easily avoid predation, and are more desired by anglers. It's also good to have the variation in the runs, like the old saying, "don't put all your eggs in one basket".
Depending on conditions, late-run kokes will still run up tributaries, and they were first documented using Sheep Creek in 2008. UDWR collects eggs from both runs in Sheep Creek those eggs are raised in hatcheries and stocked back into the creek or reservoir the following spring. Jones Hole up to this point has received eggs from where they can get them. I believe their eggs came from the DWR egg-takes at Strawberry this year, which is predominantly an early run strain. Last year, they were late-run strain eggs collected in Montana.
Up to this point, both states and the Fish and Wildlife Service (Jones Hole) have worked to raise fish for Flaming Gorge including rainbow trout and kokanee salmon. Jones Hole production will decrease by 40% in 2014 due to budgetary issues, a gap that will be filled by the states as much as possible. With the closure or reallocation of the hatchery to native fish looming (potentially 2015), both states are concerned how this will all unfold. Unfortunately, I don't have any definitive answers regarding these changes. I do know those are big stocking gaps to fill and it will put more pressure on both state's hatchery programs which are already running at max rpms.
Hope that helps some more, Ryno
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Thanks Ryan very interesting and makes sense when you understand the whys. Does the DWR consider putting the larger variety of kokes in porcupine? I'd sure like to catch some over 12" up here? Thanks J
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[quote TubeDude][#0000FF]
Another potential loser would be Starvation. That hatchery is the one from which the "Starvation steelhead" are planted...over 50,000 per year. A whole lot of folks are hitting Starvation these days just for those wild and wacky wainbows.
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Is there a difference in FG Rainbow and Starvation "steelhead"? Or is this just the cool name for rainbow?
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How are the eggs collected from the Lake Run strain?
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[#0000FF]As far as I know, they are both the same strain. But, just as with Kamloops, the environment into which they are planted can have a big influence on how fast and how big the fish grow.
I tagged the Starvation bows with my cutesy handle a few years ago after experiencing their hard hitting and great fighting tendencies. They reminded me a lot of some of the summer run steelies I used to catch while living in northern Cal. It ain't an official name.
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Okay. I fished it several years ago, but I don't really remember their fight. I will have to check it out sometime.
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[#0000FF]Starvation has not had the new strain of rainbows very long. I think they started putting them in there about 5 years ago...and it has been the last two or three years that they have really changed the fishery. There are now some 24 inchers showing up...and plenty over twenty. They are deep bodied, with small heads and they really do zing your string...with plenty of air.
There are also quite a few big browns but they are less common and harder to catch.
And of course there are plenty of tank-sized carp. Those things are scary. I have had a group of three or four take up station behind me while kicking along and I could almost imagine them saying to each other "Okay, guys, on three we pull him under." Next to Flaming Gorge, Starvation is probably one of your best bets to hook a carp over 20 pounds on a fly rod. Water is clear and the fish are aggressive.
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I'm not very familiar with Porcupine, so I'm really not the one to ask. I would contact a biologist in the Northern Region with your question. It's a good one to ask too. Just because the kokes are small isn't necessarily a reflection of the strain or genetics though. It could also be a result of really good recruitment (high densities), low mortality, poor zooplankton abundance resulting in decreased growth, water quality, all-the-above, etc.
The nice thing is, a 12-inch koke tastes just as good as a 20-incher. I know there's less fillet on them, but it's great how kokes just taste so good!
Sorry I couldn't be more help with that question.
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Hey thanks for taking a stab at the question I appreciate it. Later J
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The late-run kokanee that run up Sheep Creek are collected with an in-stream trap that's installed each season. It's a large box shaped cage with a V-shaped mouth or funnel on the downstream end and a narrow opening just wide enough for them to pass through. There are wings made of rods that block each side of the trap and direct kokanee into the mouth. The kokanee swim up stream, enter the trap through the narrow slot, and there they reside until they are removed. Then they are separated and held in holding cages until enough fish are collected to justify an egg-take.
If you were curious about late-run kokanee in the reservoir, they could be collected using a few different methods. They've been collected with trap nets set along the shore and also boat electrofishing. There are some elaborate open water traps which could be used too. It really depends on the situation though, including the habitat where the fish are congregating and spawning.
Hope it helps, Ryno
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[quote Ryno] Just because the kokes are small isn't necessarily a reflection of the strain or genetics though. It could also be a result of really good recruitment (high densities), low mortality, poor zooplankton abundance resulting in decreased growth, water quality, all-the-above, etc.
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I think you are correct Ryan, that is one of the reasons the limit is so high(12) there. Too many kokes, too little food. At one time the limit was 24 kokes in that lake. The  thing is that the size of the kokes in porcupine have only been averaging 7 to 10" the last few years so a 12 or 13" koke is a whopper there[frown].
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One reason that Ryno is willing to part with information on his area of responsibility is that he learned at the feet of the Master - Wayne Gustaveson, master of Lake Powell. Ryan was his assistant for many years on Powell and saw what providing the public with good information does for the fishery. He is a great guy and we are lucky to have him at the Gorge, looking out for the interests of all fisherman. He is a class act and a great biologist. The Gorge is in good hands !!!
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That is good to have people that really care and do such a great job... It's sure appreciated and I'll bet they love their work as well and that's why they seem to go the extra mile... Thanks for the comment... J
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Is there a good chance that the state could take over the hatchery instead of closer ? And if so who is the people we could call to help push it in that direction ?
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