UL pike question

[utahgolf]

so pike were planted by the division back in the day and they didn't do well right? Why is that? Were there not abundant forage fish in there like white bass now? I know the pike in there now are from yuba. But if it was a forage issue with the early transplants by the division, than you would think there is no stopping the pike from flourishing now.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]I suspect that is something DWR is studying as part of their newly implemented program. I also had heard that pike were previously introduced into Utah Lake but that they had not done well. Over the years in between the original planting and the sudden showing of large numbers there were only sporadic reports of anglers catching a pike or two. And those reports were usually given the same credibility as reports of giant flatheads.

Introducing a new species is subject to a lot of variables. How many were planted? How large were they? Where (how many places) were they planted? What time of year? What were the water levels, temperatures, water quality, etc.? What was the lake level...and how much available structure? What was the available food supply?

If only a small number of small pike were planted in a single area...with poor water quality, no structure, little food supply and other negative conditions it is likely that the first planting didn't succeed well. That was in earlier times, when Utah was definitely trout-oriented and with little hands-on pike experience. It was a gamble.

It was also likely that the early experiment was only a single planting in one area. I suspect that the Yuba "migrants" of recent times came in several live wells over a period of time...and were of different sizes...and were "downloaded" in different locations.

Another thought is that the big sudden appearance of pike in recent times coincided with the last high water year of 2011...when there was water clear up into the shoreline vegetation all around the lake. Pike like vegetation for spawning, nurseries and for ambush hunting. It also coincided with the previous two years of abundant white bass spawning recruitment...along with bumper crops of bluegill, crappies and other panfish. Plenty to eat.

It's all guesswork. But those are some of the reasons why they might be more abundant now but never took off when originally introduced.
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[SHAWDAWG]

I dont think it is a food source issue. Pike are considered a cold water species and they thrive in lakes with a variety of bottom structure which includes drop offs, deep water, weed beds, rock structure. UL isnt really a cold water lake (not deep enough). It has an ample food source but no deep water and very little rock or drop off structure. Pike are ambush feeders so they love sitting just below a drop off waiting for prey to swim off the edge and into their reach. They will probably never do great in UL because of this.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Pike have adapted and taken over small shallow lakes at several places in the west. A couple in Nevada and Redmond Lake near Salina. Never more than a few feet deep with little or no rock structure.

For a short time after pike enter these new venues they grow fast and big...as they clean out the food lockers. Then they tend to stunt. In Redmond it is rare to catch one over about 20-24 inches. All hammer handles.

There is a much better habitat for them in Utah Lake...with some greater depths, some rocky structure and some good vegetation in high water years. But with all the competition (so far) from other predators (largemouth, walleyes, catfish) for homes and food the pike have not exploded as they might have done otherwise.

So far, the main places that pike are turning up for Utah Lake anglers are in and around harbors and in the lower portions of feeder streams. There are isolated catches here and there around the lake, usually in bassy type conditions. But there have not been any large concentrations evident anywhere. For the Junies sake, let's hope it doesn't get any worse.
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[SBennett]

How do you know the pike that are in UL are from Yuba ?
Do you someone who put them in there?
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[Jedidiah]

Maybe the simple answer is that they're snacking on all those june sucker planters.
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[Jedidiah]

[quote SBennett]How do you know the pike that are in UL are from Yuba ?
Do you someone who put them in there?[/quote]

Uhhh.....maybe because Yuba is the closest reservoir to Utah Lake and easily 3 out of 4 people fishing there drive past Utah Lake on the way there, and then on the way back?
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[SBennett]

Uhhh, don't make assumptions.
Wait until the DWR testing is finished and then point fingers.
I am still waiting to hear if Utahgolf knows someone who put them in?
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[utahgolf]

uh oh, the internet police and investigators are out! You've been watching too many Robert Durst documentaries!!!! I have a hard time believing these pike would be remnants from the original transplants and seeing how the yuba pike rebounded and its so close to Utah lake,, well you do the math. So when I say I know they are from yuba, I am technically assuming.... I guess it could be aliens. So my bad.
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[SBennett]

Thank you for admitting it.
I just don't like accusations thrown at my fellow sportsman until the proof is in.
Who is Robert Durst?
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[Watershadow]

Accusations at fellow sportsmen....? I guess I'm not following that comment. Its pretty clear that there are significant problems with bucket biologists in the state of Utah as there are numerous documented cases of species just showing up in various bodies of water. I would say the likelihood of these pike fish being Yuba transplants is very high - as noted by the previous poster. My curiosity is up. Where do you think they came from?
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[SBennett]

Don't know but can't wait to find out.
I hope the results come in soon.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Hey Shane, I know somebody who knows somebody who supposedly witnessed two boats tossing in pike after going to Yuba. No pics and no proof so not prosecutable.

You know how those "urban legends" are.
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[SBennett]

Hi Pat,
Yes I do.

I fished DC yesterday. I took up my friends Dad that has cancer. We had a blast watching him reel in those larger than usual bows, mostly on KCT silver Dodgers w/pink Double Trouble spinners at 1.4 mph. A few also caught on a #7 black/gold Rapala fished at 30'.
Those 'larger than usual bows' are the result of No ice fishing harvest in 14/15. I wish we could have the same thing happen at Strawberry one year so everyone could enjoy larger trout.
You take care and fish hard,Shane
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[utahgolf]

[quote SBennett]Don't know but can't wait to find out.
I hope the results come in soon.[/quote]

so are they running tests on the UL pike and are able to cross reference yuba pike to see if they are the same? neat stuff.
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[SBennett]

The rumor I heard was that the DWR collected pike from UL to cross reference DNA with the Yuba pike.
The real shame of it all is that pike, walleye, and perch just can't play nice in UL to have it be like some other lakes in the US and Canada where all 3 of those species create destination fisheries.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]No. The shame is that Utah Lake has been producing trophy walleyes for decades...and now there is the potential for big pike near the Wasatch Front...but they reside in a lake where June Sucker trump the predators.

In any other lake in the country...without June suckers...a growing population of pike to go along with all the other good fishing would usually be deemed a good thing.

There is little chance that the northerns will displace the other predator species. But as long as there is the potential for them to munch suckers they are the bad guys.
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[SBennett]

I know, June suckers are excellent for growing trophy walleye.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]In truth, white bass comprise the major part of the walleye diet. And surprisingly there are quite a few perch, bluegill and even bullheads found in their innards. But those Junies are prime rib for walleyes. During and immediately following the annual planting of the newly hatched suckerettes many of the walleyes taken near the release areas are bulging with the spineless little morsels. That has prompted some Utah Lake anglers to refer to the Junie hatchling release as the walleye feeding program.

An interesting afterthought is that I have never opened a Utah Lake walleye that had a carp of any size in it. So they do not contribute to the carp removal efforts. But the Yuba pike have cleaned up the perch to the extent that they now dine on carplets regularly. Although it was recently observed that after they received their feeding from Fish Lake (perch transplants) that they were once again enjoying perch on the menu.

My point is that I doubt that pike will do much good in the war on carp. Not as long as there are so many other toothsome finny critters around.
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[Therapist]

Genetic testing has been done to confirm that they are from Yuba/Redmond. The only other place would be the Colorado in the basin or Lake Powell. There are so few in those areas, that it would take a long time to collect them. Transport would be a problem also.

It would be interesting to know why they are doing so well now vs in the past. The only major change would possibly be some small changes ( positive) in water quality. Food would not really be an issue. Inquiring minds want to know ??