UL WHITE BASS

[skidmarximus88]

They are pulling the whites out of Utah Lake by the buckets right now, or in picture 1's case by the truck load...
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[Tin-Can]

That's lots of good Catfish bait, and good human eating too. Can't remember, is there a limit on Whites?
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]No limit on white bass. But there should be. Not because of any danger to white bass but just to slow down the wholesale and wanton raping of the species...just because they can...and because they can sell buckets full to folks who want them.
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[Fishrmn]

The only thing wrong with White Bass in Utah Lake is that there are too many of them. If their numbers were in some sort of balance with the system there'd be some of them grow to be 3 to 5 pounds.



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[BHuij]

I'd support a limit of 50. Once you have 50 WB in a cooler, you REALLY just don't need any more, I don't care how much you're planning to filet and freeze. Unless that is, you're selling to some hole in the wall restaurant. Oddly, the same people profiting off such business ventures can't seem to find $30/year to spare for a fishing license most of the time.
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[doggonefishin]

Sounds like you enjoyed some fast action. How long did it take to fillet all of those?



A few other comments.


1. I've stopped by and played with the whities a couple of times recently. The action has been very good, but I am pleased to see 2 age classes appearing in the catch. The whitie population may be a bit better than we thought it might be with the drought. As others have noted, all the fish so far have been male. Fish have been in decent shape, body condition wise.

2. There is always a lot of hand wringing about some of the folks (of certain ethnicities) that take large quantities of white bass for so called quasi-commercial purposes. In spite of them, the white bass populations go up or crash independent of what the "happy harvesters" do. These folks never waste the fish they harvest and they DO have a fishing license and know the rules, since they wouldn't risk their pastime. At least at UL, I don't think they do any harm. I can't say with confidence that other folks who harvest enormous amounts of whites utilize all they take home.

3. RE"The only thing wrong with White Bass in Utah Lake is that there are too many of them."

There is truth to this most of the time. The problem is that not even the subsistence anglers, Bill Loy, or anyone else can take out enough to make a difference. The only way UL grows large white bass is by a major whitie crash. Then we see some big whites. I've seen it a couple of times in my days.

4. My 7 year old had a blast the other night reeling in white after white. On light tackle, they fought well. We didn't even keep any. It is nice to have species like white bass around for kids and inexperienced anglers to have some success with.
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[TubeDude]

[quote Fishrmn]The only thing wrong with White Bass in Utah Lake is that there are too many of them. If their numbers were in some sort of balance with the system there'd be some of them grow to be 3 to 5 pounds.
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[#0000FF]BALANCE is the key word. And the major part of that is available forage. White bass in Utah Lake are in the same boat (figuratively speaking) as yellow perch in most Utah waters. They rely largely on eating their own young...while they are still small enough...as their main forage base.

I have caught white bass in California, Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico...as well as in Utah. And yes, I have caught them up to 5 pounds. But in any water that consistently produced large white bass there were three common similarities: 1. An abundance of threadfin shad...and/or other small fish species for year round feeding. 2. One or more large full-flowing fresh water tributaries for spring spawning runs. 3. Constant water levels and good depth...up to 100 feet or more.

None of those conditions exist in Utah Lake.

There were brief periods in the 1960s, 70s and 80s when the combination of low white bass numbers and greater food resources resulted in white bass over 2 pounds. And I have heard reports of the rare individuals approaching 3#. But there are lakes in other states that consistently produce whities in the 2-3# class...with some larger ones non uncommon.

Utah Lake is an anomaly. In spite of its shallowness and seemingly poor fish habitat, it continues to kick out huge numbers of several species more common in deeper and colder lakes.
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[Fowl-Hook]

If the number of Northern Pike in Yuba justifies a limit of 20,
then no limit must indicate billions of Whities in Utah Lake .
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]The 20 fish limit on northerns is absurd. Nobody will EVER get a limit. More than one a year is rare. Two or more on a single trip is almost unheard of.

The infinity limit on white bass is another matter. I suppose if someone wanted to spend the time and effort they could approach infinity.
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[Bad_Crawdad]

I'm going to have to agree with doggonefishin. If we want to see large white bass in UL, the population needs to crash. Perhaps every year. Tubedude indicated three criteria for ideal bass groing conditions, but UL whities seem to do a fantastic job at reproducing despite criteria #2. They do not have the feed to support the population. They need a significant crash every year, and anglers can't do it.

Remember when pelican lake had dish plate sized gills? It's because they winterkilled nearly every (low water) year leaving more forage for survivors. When the DNR secured water for holding fish through the winter, the average size began to drop. Now pelican has similar fish as Mantua. Still good, but not trophies.

It would be awesome if DNR opened UL white bass to commercial fishing (artificially simulate population crashes), but that's a level of moderating the DNR doesn't want to touch. The only reason comercial carp harvesting exists is because of the June sucker program.
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[fish_fear_me2]

Doesnt seem like throwing the fish in the bed of a pick up on a warm day would be the best way to care for a tasty dinner. Just my opinion. I love catching and eating white bass but I try to keep them alive then immediately on ice for the trip home.
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[skidmarximus88]

I didn't catch any of the fish as pictured, I personally have no use for that many fish, taking 5 home would do me just fine. They are just pictures from folks I know that had posted them elsewhere... If I were to catch and keep whites the would go straight to a cooler like all the other fish I keep.
I think a limit of 50 or what not would be a good idea. Either way these guys will keep going back and filling up their buckets.
This last winter we caught our fair share of perch out of Fish lake and had a blast! Even more fun filleting them for hours... I don't think I could do that again.
With out limits on the whites I don't feel like people should be judging anyone on their loads, but for me and mine, I couldn't do as much as pictured.
Sorry for tagging you fishfearme, I should have replied to the post as a whole.
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[Fishrmn]

Why limit the harvest of something that is already TOO plentiful? The only thing worse than a pickup truck full of white bass from Utah Lake is having those white bass still in Utah Lake laying millions more eggs to produce millions more babies that won't have enough to eat. If somebody wants to take them home..... let them.



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[skidmarximus88]

10-4
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[Therapist]

Fishrmn - read my post to Cliff on the SMB in Jordanelle, the same thing applies to the WB in Ut Lake. TD nailed it to the wall in his post. Forage, habitat, and water are the keys, and DWR has no control over any of them, the water users, FEDs, and nature control those.

With that said, I have lobbied DWR for many years for a 50 fish limit on WB, but there were no supporters. I have seen the Pickup loads in the past and the 5gal buckets full going out of the lake. Most of em will end up in Asian restaurants in SLC or in the landfill. Not much you can do unless DWR is willing to set a limit and enforce it.

[Fishrmn]

Whether they end up as cat food, fertilizer, dinner, catfish bait, on the menu, or in a dumpster doesn't matter. There is no reason to have a limit on white bass at Utah Lake. There are too many of them in Utah Lake. And when they're not over populated they grow just a little bit bigger and repeat the process.



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[Bad_Crawdad]

[quote Therapist]Fishrmn - read my post to Cliff on the SMB in Jordanelle, the same thing applies to the WB in Ut Lake. TD nailed it to the wall in his post. Forage, habitat, and water are the keys, and DWR has no control over any of them, the water users, FEDs, and nature control those.

With that said, I have lobbied DWR for many years for a 50 fish limit on WB, but there were no supporters. I have seen the Pickup loads in the past and the 5gal buckets full going out of the lake. Most of em will end up in Asian restaurants in SLC or in the landfill. Not much you can do unless DWR is willing to set a limit and enforce it.[/quote]

How is poor smallie recruitment at Jordanelle similar to stunted white bass in UL?

From what I can ascertain from the DWR is that if it is producing something of value don't try to fix it everything else. UL has plenty other good fishing opportunities that deserves focus over white bass.
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[dtayboyz]

Just saying
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[Bad_Crawdad]

[quote dtayboyz]Just saying[/quote]

Here's some more facts

"white bass grow rapidly in the south, normally attaining a size of 9 to 10 inches in their first year of life and 12 inches by the end of the second... The life expectancy of white bass is short and few reach 5 years old... fisheries biologists think that males become sexually mature at age one (8-9 inches) and females at age two (12-13 inches)."

Northern bass grow slower, but live longer and can become quite large.
Bottom line is that there are too many mouths to feed and UL white bass will never reach full potential without an abundant forage like a hardy shad species.
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[TubeDude]

[quote Fishrmn]Whether they end up as cat food, fertilizer, dinner, catfish bait, on the menu, or in a dumpster doesn't matter. There is no reason to have a limit on white bass at Utah Lake. There are too many of them in Utah Lake. And when they're not over populated they grow just a little bit bigger and repeat the process. [red]⫸[/red][orange]<{[/orange][yellow]{{[/yellow][green]{{[/green][size 4][blue]⦇[/blue][/size][blue]°[/blue][#8000ff]>[/#8000ff][/quote]

[#0000FF]I agree...and disagree. It is a "catch 22" situation. The white bass have become the primary forage source for most of the predatory species...including themselves. If there is a poor spawn year for white bass, all the species that rely on white bass suffer. When the whitie population crashes, so do the walleyes. Even the cats are not as healthy.

Basic fishyology tells us that more food for fewer competitors should equal bigger fish. Right. But when it becomes a downward spiral...of white bass not getting in good spawns then there is actually less food for the survivors.

Don't know how much you actually fish Utah Lake...or fish for white bass. But I fish it a lot and keep records of my findings. The past two years the white bass numbers have been down, spawning has been reduced and the numbers of baby white bass have plummeted. Where it is normal to see thousands of baby whities dimpling the surface in the mornings feeding on midges there have been only a few...if any. And the predators (walleyes, cats and other white bass) caught and filleted have had almost no baby white bass in them at all.

White bass have had to rely on feeding on invertebrates or the occasional young of other species. Ditto for the walleyes. Big walleyes have still had enough small yearly or two year old whities to eat, but this past year's spawn was almost a no show.

The good news/bad news is that it appears that the white bass are spawning well this year. And we will once again be up to our hams in whities. Yay.
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